Coffee and Cream, Ketosis and Autophagy

On Twitter, Jerry Teixeira (JT) declared his love of cream in coffee. It led to a long thread where the joys and benefits of creamy vs black coffee were argued.

An interesting side discussion formed over the issue of fasting, ketosis, and autophagy. I must admit that my understanding was always a big hazy about the relationship between the latter two, both of which can be results of fasting. Despite common factors involved in both processes, I didn’t think there was a causal link.

I guess there is a connection, after all (Camberos-Luna et al, The Ketone Body, β-Hydroxybutyrate Stimulates the Autophagic Flux and Prevents Neuronal Death Induced by Glucose Deprivation in Cortical Cultured Neurons.). Even so, that still leaves other benefits of fasting, such as downregulating mTOR (vitamin D3 and Autophagy).

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Patrice Bäumel
My number one reason for drinking black coffee in the morning is to not interfere with IF, which cream does.

Rob W. James
The benefits of IF are overstated in my opinion. Most of the benefits come from calorie restriction, which a splash of milk isn’t going to make much difference too

Patrice Bäumel
The main benefit is clearing out damaged cells. It’s an anti-aging hack. You lose that benefit by breaking fast.

JT
Coffee is still a xenobiotic, you are breaking a fast by drinking coffee and you are breaking a fast by drinking 2 tbsp cream. Regardless, autophagy is stimulated via ketogenesis, neither coffee nor cream Inhibit ketogenesis.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/26303508/

Tell
Autophagy doesn’t really hit significant levels until 48hrs though. So benefits are mininal if any during IF

Tell
This is not to say autphagy isn’t present until 48hrs, rather it hits full scale around 48hrs.
And if autophagy is why you “fast” an extended fast.. past a normal IF, is necessary to achieve what you’re after.

JT
Autophagy happens downstream via BHB regardless, when you are on a ketogenic diet you have these elevated BHB levels at that point for long periods, where fasting takes 48 hours to get you where a Keto diet keeps you

JT
So if you are IF and eating plenty of carbs I totally agree. It takes longer to get to the higher BHB levels because BHB and carbohydrate are inversely proportional

Tell 
This is such an important point I don’t see anyone talking about.
That’s why I was talking about fasting a few weeks ago.
No one is talking about needing to be in ketosis to be fasted. So most of these guys doing IF are basically just TRE.. Which is a good enough reason to IF

Tell 
The contents creators aren’t talking about this though and selling false promises of autophagy and fountain of youth.

Dave
I read an article about IF that showed signs of arteriole smoothing with a 16:8 diet. If this is true then autophagy at 48 hours isn’t necessary for sole benefit and daily fasting does have vasculature anti-aging properties.

JT
There are benefits for every hour you fast according to Salk institute researchers . What we will need to see is calorie matched studies between TRE/ IF and CR. But to say there is zero additional benefit if you are healthy is wrong. The amount of benefit is arguable

JT
Beta hydroxy butyrate is an HDAC inhibitor and downstream via that action increases autophagy. Cream doesn’t matter. The longer you fast for the higher the bhb. Or a ketogenic diet can increase the bhb. Ketogenic diet mimics fasting and vice Versa.

JT
They are not synonymous. Of course, however elevated BHB levels are a common thread and a little cream in your coffee is not going to matter at all in that regard.

JT
Myriads research over the last two years and mixing more underway showing the mechanisms by which you still see these benefits from BHB weather or not you fast. I am compiling all the links and will sends them over when done if you would like

Erik
Hell, coffee alone (even decaf) induces autophagy.
https://t.co/2KcTpGZur0?amp=1

JT
Yeah, I saw some research that it increases ketogenisis